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Re: turkish tumbler colours.

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:37 pm
by Kurt Gürsu
I hope you don't mind Octavian, I modified your message so the photos show easly.

I like your birds. They seem very sharp.
Do you have any photos of the parents of the bird in the first photo?

Kınalı Dumanlı Açık (Hennaed Smokey Reduced)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:39 pm
by Kurt Gürsu
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Again Ankara region the color açık (reduced) wıll be called Boz (earth gray or ash gray)

Aynalı Çilli Açık Mavi (Mirrored Freckled Light Blue)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:44 pm
by Kurt Gürsu
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Tepeli Güllü Silik Dumanlı Çakmaklı

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:47 pm
by Kurt Gürsu
(Crested and Rosed, Erased Smokey Checker)
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Gümüş (Silver)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 7:50 pm
by Kurt Gürsu
Image[/quote]
This color naming is unique since it is named not for the entire color of the bird but only the color of the almond specks on it.

Re: turkish tumbler colours.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:06 pm
by octavian
The bird in the first picture is from a friend who got her from 2 birds that i gave him, her father is a silver light chec without ice and her mother is an yellow bar hen. here are the pictures. Both of her parents are from Germany, the father has an personalised ring with the name of the owner, it is a turkish name.
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Re: turkish tumbler colours.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:29 pm
by Kurt Gürsu
I like the father, Octavian.
That is a sharp bird.
If there is a hen from that bloodline I would try them together.
If not even the daughter would work.
Seeing him made me curious about what kind of young birds would come out of that kind of pairing.
Have you flown any of his young?
What kind of performance is coming out of them?

Re: turkish tumbler colours.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 10:41 pm
by octavian
The father is a ground tumbler, he can't fly, i gave it to a friend, and he got this hen from him, i only took the mother back beacause the father o this hen is the best bird that he has and he told me that if that birds goes out of his loft he won't keep taklas. I mated her to a black male that is half brother with her after their father and the mother of this hen i mated back with another half brother of this hen, also descendent of the male but with another female, so i hope i will get at least one like her this year. This color is called Ember in US by pigeon geneticists and it is one i would like to have in large number at home :D .

Re: Gümüş (Silver)

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 9:51 am
by grg
Kurt Gürsu wrote:This color naming is unique since it is named not for the entire color of the bird but only the color of the almond specks on it.

Octavian,
How old is this bird? Are the speks getting darker and broader with age as all almond do?
Regards
Greg

Re: Gümüş (Silver)

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:15 pm
by octavian
grg wrote:
Kurt Gürsu wrote:This color naming is unique since it is named not for the entire color of the bird but only the color of the almond specks on it.

Octavian,
How old is this bird? Are the speks getting darker and broader with age as all almond do?
Regards
Greg


it is an 2010 bird, it is not an almond bird. As far as i know there is no almond in the takla breeds, it is just an ash red spread heterozigous for blue. It means that if you mate a black bird with an ash red bar bird when they combine all, and this happens only on males it will get such a thing, the females won't have those black flecks on them.

Re: Gümüş (Silver)

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 1:18 pm
by octavian
octavian wrote:
grg wrote:
Kurt Gürsu wrote:This color naming is unique since it is named not for the entire color of the bird but only the color of the almond specks on it.

Octavian,
How old is this bird? Are the speks getting darker and broader with age as all almond do?
Regards
Greg


it is an 2010 bird, it is not an almond bird. As far as i know there is no almond in the takla breeds, it is just an ash red spread heterozigous for blue. It means that if you mate a black bird with an ash red bar bird when they combine all, and this happens only on males it will get such a thing, the females won't have those black flecks on them. This thing acts like almond, yes, as they get older they will have more and bigger flecks on them, but only on males.

Re: turkish tumbler colours.

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:38 pm
by Kurt Gürsu
octavian wrote:The father is a ground tumbler, he can't fly, i gave it to a friend

I like that bird.
Body structure is very sharp.
I hope your friend gets to breed out of him intensively.
There could be some very interesting young birds come out of him with the right hen.

Re: Gümüş (Silver)

PostPosted: Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:47 pm
by Kurt Gürsu
grg wrote:How old is this bird? Are the speks getting darker and broader with age as all almond do?

I am no expert in genetics, so I don't know if this color is related to almonds.
I have seen some birds with similar colors in different breeds around here and the breeders call it qualmond.
Then again I am not sure if it is the same color.
What I know is, this kind of speckling is rare in Takla and comes mostly on yellow bars and at times on red bars.
They do get darker and larger with age.
I have seen only male birds with this color and not sure if any hens exist also.
Traditionaly the birds with this color are only paired with brown hens.
Here are some older birds from Australia:

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Re: Gümüş (Silver)

PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:13 am
by octavian
Kurt Gürsu wrote:
grg wrote:How old is this bird? Are the speks getting darker and broader with age as all almond do?

I am no expert in genetics, so I don't know if this color is related to almonds.
I have seen some birds with similar colors in different breeds around here and the breeders call it qualmond.
Then again I am not sure if it is the same color.
What I know is, this kind of speckling is rare in Takla and comes mostly on yellow bars and at times on red bars.
They do get darker and larger with age.
I have seen only male birds with this color and not sure if any hens exist also.
Traditionaly the birds with this color are only paired with brown hens.
Here are some older birds from Australia:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


This is the thing, almonds have females with flecks too and when mated together they make almost white males too. This thing that you show me here are ash red spread(lavander) heterozigus for blue and some of them are dilute. It is quite easy to make one, but not sure that all of them will make so many black flecks. Try and mate a black male with a yellow or an ash red female and you will have this kind of males, but the blacks must be with black beak, not with white beak beacause they wont make any flecks. i will show you the parents of my bird.

http://octavian.sunphoto.ro/Takla/EXVGIBUKBMMWBYWHTQZ
http://octavian.sunphoto.ro/Takla/10543225

The female is exactly the color of the males with flecks, she doesn't have any flecks, and if she will make some they will be brown. If you dont have black or ash red birds come to me and i will give you :D

Re: Gümüş (Silver)

PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:15 pm
by Kurt Gürsu
octavian wrote:This is the thing, almonds have females with flecks too and when mated together they make almost white males too. This thing that you show me here are ash red spread(lavander) heterozigus for blue and some of them are dilute. It is quite easy to make one, but not sure that all of them will make so many black flecks.

I should be clearer on what I am saying: I used the words "Almond flecks" to describe what I was trying to describe but it looks like it is cousing some misunderstandings. I should of said "like almond flecks". The thing I am showing you is called gümüş. Its relationship to almond or any other genetic factor does not concern me and I would be very surprised if there is a Turkish takla breeder out there who would be concerned about it. Terminologies used out there in the genetic world should not be confused with the Turkish names used to describe the colors I have been sharing here. They are not translation of genetic terms or factors but merely traditional names. I am certain they predate Mendel. Since you do run into this color in Takla I am sure you would recognize the fact the breeders know how exactly to come up with the color.

octavian wrote:Try and mate a black male with a yellow or an ash red female and you will have this kind of males, but the blacks must be with black beak, not with white beak beacause they wont make any flecks. i will show you the parents of my bird.

As you get deeper in to this breed, I am sure you will see why, but I could not do a pairing based on those facts in my breeder coop.
If I did, that fact alone would be enough to discredit my bloodlines and my ability to breed topnotch birds.

octavian wrote: If you dont have black or ash red birds come to me and i will give you :D

Thank you for your generous offer. :D