takla performance

[tumblers]

Hi guys
can anyone help me I want to know what do breeders look for in the takla to determine its a good performance bird ?

thank you

[Kurt Gürsu]

Good question really.

When we talk about good performance, we are only talking about old birds or I should say birds that have gone through a molt and have fed 1 set of babies.

The performance of young birds, regardless of how spectacular they might be, can not qualify that bird as a good performer or not. At best it will show the bird has great potential.

So how does a good (old)bird perform?
- Bird must dive/approach the target and start performing below 10 feet.
- Bird must not dive/approach any other spot other then the target during the flight. There must not be any performance seen other then what takes place at the target.
- Bird must start the combination with a foundation tumble. This is a tumble that takes place as the bird finishes its dive and is about to start climbing.
- Bird must complete minimum 3 tumbles after the foundation tumble and put a distance between each tumble. Obviously the more tumbles the better. However, between tumbles there must be clearly visible climbs.
- Bird must climb strait, as close to 90 degrees to the ground as possible.
- Bird must have strong wing sound during climb.
- Bird must climb minimum 4 yards during each combination. The longer the better. (Minimum height is stated based on the minimum tumbles.) Between each tumble a distance of approximately 4 feet of climb is considered to be decent. Again the longer the better but not if it is sacrificing the number of tumbles.
- Bird must finish the combination with a tie tumble. This is a tumble that is performed when the bird is about to stop climbing. The bird must tumble then let it self go into flight again.
- Bird must do all of the above at least 10 times to be considered a decent bird. The more combinations the better.
- Bird must land with multiple tumbles and/or what we call “Harmanlama” Which is a side to side movement while hovering right above the target, trying to land.
- Bird, under no circumstances, must not come and land like a wild bird would. It must not approach the target like it is going to perform and just land. It must not finish it’s performance by going through the door of the coop. It must not get under a tree or a roof eve to be able to land. All these behaviors are considered to be fatal faults in this breed.
- Bird must not land anywhere but the target. Only exceptions are predator and weather conditions to this rule.
- Bird must not split the elbow at any point in it’s flight career. Split elbow is the elbow joint becoming bloody during performance and when inspected a wound being found at the inside joint of the elbow of the wing. Which is considered to be a fatal fault in the breed. This however must not be mixed with fresh flights’ exploding from the pressure created by the tumbles. In this case the keeper is considered to be at fault for flying a bird while the first 3 primaries still fresh.
- When a bird is flown it is acceptable and pretty much expected for the bird to fly 10 to 20 minutes with out any performance worming its muscles.

I hope I didn’t forget anything.
Let me know if you have any questions.

[hasseian_313]

yup kut you right about that but some place thet liike takla to fly long hrs 2

[tumblers]

Thanks a lot Kurt
would matter if the tumbler upward i have few takla they tumbler upward but not very often ?

[Kurt Gürsu]

Not a problem at all.
Can you tell me little more about the upward tumbling please?
I am not too clear.

[tumblers]

Hi I have my other pigeons when they tumbler the backward the tumbling just like every other turkish tumbler but i have some of my birds when they tumbler its upward ( clock way you ) i hope its make sense here is a video watch they third bird tumbling http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88T5n4X-39s
thanks kurt

[Kurt Gürsu]

Sorry for the late reply.
I just saw your message.
To be honest I don't see anything wrong with any of the birds in the video.
Are you talking about the blue color bird with the nose crest (rose)?
It is a very sharp looking bird.
Are you flying these guys?
I wouldn't worry too much about what they do in the room.

[tumblers]

Hi
unfortunately they don't fly I will update a video of my flying one i have a hen fly really good that why i did asked you about the takla performance most of my takla old birds unable to fly from tumbling some cant even go up one meter
i have read in your comment in other topic with hasseian_313 about the iraqi tumbler do you know what the called them in turkey ?
thanks

[Kurt Gürsu]

Hi
unfortunately they don't fly I will update a video of my flying one i have a hen fly really good that why i did asked you about the takla performance most of my takla old birds unable to fly from tumbling some cant even go up one meter

These old birds: Did they stop flying at one point while being routinely flown?
I am wondering because from what I can see through the video your birds look rather good.
It makes me wonder if they were grounded for a long time.
Is there an age they stop flying due to too much tumbling?

i have read in your comment in other topic with hasseian_313 about the iraqi tumbler do you know what the called them in turkey ?
thanks

It depends really, if they are the type with the performance style we look for, they don't have a special name.
All birds with this style of performance is called "Oyun Kuşu", which means performance bird or play bird if translated word by word.
If we are looking at birds that look like them but do not perform competition style (not just the individual bird but the bloodline) then they are called "Şebap" and basically considered to be birds that are kept for their physical qualities. Just so there is no misunderstanding, these birds also perform. Just not at the caliber of competition birds. Some of these bloodlines fly for very long hours also.
On the other hand there are birds in between both of these types and they are not as good performing as the competition birds or as good looking as the "Şebap" type. These birds are called "Bebe Kuşu" basically it translates to birds for babies.
All of them called Takla as the breed.

If any of these varieties were to come from a fancier who is in Iraq then the bird (regardless of if that bloodline originally came to Iraq from Turkey or not, or if the man is a Turk who lives in Iraq or an Iraqi) is called Iraqi bird.
Similarly if it comes from Kuwait then it is called Kuwait bird and if it is from Israel then the Israel bird.

However, there are certain colors that are created in Iraq and these birds are called with non-Turkish names like Risasi, Miro or Saddam based on their colors. These birds as a group are called Iraqi Tumblers and are considered to be in the Şebap categori. You can see some of these birds in Zafer Dal's post in the Breeders section. They are very valuable birds back home also.

As far as I know there are no Basra tumblers in Turkey.

[tumblers]

yea they used to fly and then grounded for breeding for over a year here is a video of on of them he is my worst one
I have tried everything with this bird trying fly him again but didn't work
in the second video that hen she wont fly not sure why i try through in the air in windy days all it does keep doing this helicopter fly and tumbler until it get on the grand sometime it take longer time to get on the ground
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg5V9NsUpaQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2K4tKC212o

[Kurt Gürsu]

Hi,
We had discussed something similar in one of the other posts.
Did you try these?

how do i breed out birds form becoming floor tumblers?

I am not sure what you mean by becoming floor tumblers.
If at one point in their training the young bird becomes unable to fly because of constant tumbling I would check couple of things:
Feed: Is the bird too heavy? Adjusting the feed ratio could prevent this problem.
Training: Is the bird getting enough air time. Increasing the flight time will get rid of the problem.
Stuck: Is the bird completely unable to fly because of constant tumbling? I would fix the previous concerns then try to fly this bird in very windy days to force flight.
If that is not working force him to fly by putting him on top of a 4-5 feet of a structure facing the coop and the other birds on the floor and let him work out how to come down.
Once he does this then start throwing him in the air each day while the other birds are about to land and are flying right above the coop. If this works and he is able to fly a few rounds then the following day throw him in to the air at a further location. The following day a little further etc.
If nothing is working out using an office tape tie his tail feathers together and throw him up (preferably on a windy day).
If not successful by pull the middle 4-5 feathers of his tail out then throw him up.
If you see something of a hesitance of tumbling but the problem is still there remove the tail feathers completely and toss him up.

If you still have the same issue you can stop flying him at all for 8 to 12 months and try again.

I could not view the second video. It is listed as private in youtube.
But the black bird in the first video doesn't seem too stuck. There has to be a way to get him to fly again.
It doesn't look like his training was complete before he was grounded.
I hope one of the things I mentioned before works with him.
If not, I would not get rid of that bird.
I think, it is a rather good bird.
I would use him as a breeder.
Maybe pair him with a softer bird and losen up the babies I get from him.

[tumblers]

Hi kurt thanks for your reply yes i have read that discussion can you tell what city its from ankara or mardin ?
also i want to update a pictures of my birds on the breeding section how do i upload photos to the breeds sections
thank you

[Kurt Gürsu]

Hi,
It is hard to tell but the black bird has a lot of Ankara qualities to me.
He seems a bit long but it could be the video.

Take a look at this post for the photos:
How do I put my photos in to the Breeders section?
If it becomes a hassle just email me the photos and I'll take care of it for you.
Not a problem.
Take care

[tumblers]

Hi kurt
how are you doing?
one of my takla was attack not sure how but when she landed her whole wing and under her chest full of blood now she stop to fly and always have fear benign outside the coop and flying very fast and scard is there a way i can do to stop this fear ?
one more this i have a cock from an old blood line i did asked you about once neck shaker can you mate him with other takla or does have to be the same bloodline
I have finally flown him but when he start tumbling he losing it and keep tumbling up to 15 times and land or smash on the grand iahev pulled his tail off is it worth pair him with a good flyer ?
thanks
Haydar

[Kurt Gürsu]

Hi Haydar,
I am doing fine thank you for asking.
I hope everything is well with you also.

one of my takla was attack not sure how but when she landed her whole wing and under her chest full of blood now she stop to fly and always have fear benign outside the coop and flying very fast and scard is there a way i can do to stop this fear ?

How long has it been since the incident?
Wings and the chest was bloody but do you know exactly where the cut was?
Is it healed completely?
Wing and chest joint areas mostly point to a Cooper attack.
In any case, I don't blame her for not wanting to fly.
This behavior is very normal just give her some time.
Sooner or later she will get over her fear, especially when she feels 100% strong again.
I have had some scared for a few days and some fr a few months but at the end they will fly just fine on their own.
Then again I had a sliver blue hen that was hit 5 different times and once was gone for 4 days who would fly as son as her stiches healed every time.
One of my good friends has her as his top breeder hen last 10 years now.

one more this i have a cock from an old blood line i did asked you about once neck shaker can you mate him with other takla or does have to be the same bloodline
I have finally flown him but when he start tumbling he losing it and keep tumbling up to 15 times and land or smash on the grand iahev pulled his tail off is it worth pair him with a good flyer ?

I am sure you remember my answer was very sceptical about that bird at the time.
Don't take me wrong, I think you have some pretty good quality birds but that shake on that particular bird is not a good sign for me.
I am not suprised a bit with him crashing during performance and none of the steps I mentioned before will work on this type of a situation.
I can think of two possibilities for this (in relation to the neck shaking):
1) He is a multi breed mix bird (not just two different varieties of Takla but actual 2 different breeds).
2) There is some sort of a nervous system damage present at that bird which regardless of the reasons for it is not a good thing to have in the coop.
If you want my honest opinion on this bird, I would say get him out of your loft.
Don't waste your time with trying to breed out the crashing or shaking, when you have so many good birds in your loft.
Spend that energy on the other birds.