Ankara? or what?

[Corbin]

I recently got these birds. All I was told are they are Turkish and called 'Smokey'... They appear to be Ankara's is this correct?
Thanks

[Kurt Gürsu]

They are nice birds.
In my opinion they are a mix of Ankara and Mardin.

[Corbin]

Thanks Kurt,
Those two above our both hens. I have since recieved two cocks. Same looking but larger.
One cock has a mirrored tail so I based on your description it is mixed?
I have seen Mardins and know they aren't that straight. Never seen Ankara so don't have anything to compare too.
Will I be able to tell once they get flying? I weighed a hen and she was a couple grams less than 8 ounces.



So when I translate Takla it comes out to 'tumble' or 'flip-flop' Would it be correct to say that in America people would call these 'Crack tumblers'
What does Taklabac mean?
It looks like there are 6 kinds of Takla which are rather different? Why then are they lumped into one catergory? Just trying to get a better understanding.
Do Ankaras come back crested too?
Here is a video of my two pairs getting readty to breed.
http://youtu.be/NVsNkCmSSUA?t=5m32s

These birds came from a Henry in Scottsdale and he said they are from Seref in NY and may be mixed with birdlovfly (youtube name) in Minnesota.

[Kurt Gürsu]

Thanks Kurt,
Those two above our both hens. I have since recieved two cocks. Same looking but larger.
One cock has a mirrored tail so I based on your description it is mixed?
I have seen Mardins and know they aren't that straight. Never seen Ankara so don't have anything to compare too.
Will I be able to tell once they get flying? I weighed a hen and she was a couple grams less than 8 ounces.

They look more Mardin to me know with these last photos.
At this point I think the important thing is how they perform.
Get the young birds in the air and see what is going on/

So when I translate Takla it comes out to 'tumble' or 'flip-flop' Would it be correct to say that in America people would call these 'Crack tumblers'

In us people used to call these birds crack tumblers because they didn't know better.
That is a term used for any tumbler that is from Turkey to Mddle East to Siberia.
The ones know the differences between different tumbler breeds from these areas do not use the crack tumbler terminology, since it doesn't really describe any one breed particularly.
Takla means tumble. The breed is also called Taklacı in Turkey which means tumbler.
Now, there are other tumbler breeds back home also but none is called Takla but this breed.
The manin reason for this is this breed beeing considered to be the origin of tumbler breeds.
The other reason is the breeds origins reaching to Takla Makan desert.
Play of words of sorts.

What does Taklabac mean?
Just a name. Hard to translate but almost like playing with tumbles.

It looks like there are 6 kinds of Takla which are rather different? Why then are they lumped into one catergory? Just trying to get a better understanding.

They are all lumped in to the tumblers category because they all have a type of tumbling performance with in that breed.
However, you are very much right.
They are all very different from each other.

Do Ankaras come back crested too?

Today, most birds are very difficult to categorize as one region or the other due to the compettion breedign.
It would be very difficult find a pure Ankara or Mardin.
Most of what is called Ankara are mixed birds that cary heavy Ankara qualities.
For this reason, you can actually see back crested Ankara birds.
Doesn't mean they are no god.
They could in fact be excellent birds.

Here is a video of my two pairs getting readty to breed.
http://youtu.be/NVsNkCmSSUA?t=5m32s
These birds came from a Henry in Scottsdale and he said they are from Seref in NY and may be mixed with birdlovfly (youtube name) in Minnesota.

You have very nice birds.
I appreciate the video.
Those smokey blues look so familiar to me.
Duane might recognise them also.
So would Alex (Boncuk).
If they have not been mixed with any other bird they are Mardin.
There are two possible origins for them: Temel imports which went to Duane at one point then to a few others, or one of my imports from 2000.

[Ugur Buyukolmez]

they are yozgat (mardin and urfa cross) mixed birds, henry has iraqis to my knowlege, smaller birds might have it in them.

[Corbin]

Thanks both of you for the replies. Henry does have a lot of Iraqi birds yes, also Turkish. He does have Mardins as well.. He got Turkish birds from at least two lofts that I know of. Seref and birdlovefly. Does either one of them have Urfa? Will be exicting to see them fly! He did make it a point to say that these are not Mardins.

[Corbin]

Interesting that you mention Urfa. I only flew the two hens for a short time. Got a couple flips out of them. Once I got them into the breeding loft I didn't think much of the wings being below the body as this is normal around breeding time for them to strut their stuff. Having said that I was surprised to see her tonight sitting on a egg with her wings below. They seem to be more prone to have their wings under the tail than any other breed I've seen. Again though my expierence is limit with these (Turkish) birds.

[Corbin]

I was at Henry's just the other day and saw his Mardins and what appeared to be an Urfa, or least a strong mix as it's wings were greatly below. Looked like a Mardin other than the wings.

[Kurt Gürsu]

Hi,
I am very familiar with the bloodline Alex mentioned.
Sounds like he knows the guys you got it from.
Any way, Urfa in those birds is a long shot.
I am not sure about the percentage but not as much as Mardin for sure.
It is normal to see wing dropping since its in the genes.
I kept that blodline for a few years.
To me they are a bit different looking birds.
I am not sure what kinds of birds the guy in Yozgat put in to the family to create that bloodline but the legs are different both from Urfa and the Mardin.
Kind of skinny and long.
That's the first thing I had noticed when I saw those birds.
That being said, they are good birds.
Hopefully you get good performances out of them.

[Corbin]

I'm confused now. Is Ugor, Alex? He said Yozgat's are a Mardin/Ufra cross. You say Urfa is a long shot?
All I know is at Henry's Loft he has Mardin and some other takla which looks like the picture you have of Ufras expect the head is not a rounded. His birds came from Seref in NY and birdlovefly in MN. He said they are either pure Seref's or a mix of the two. Based on what I saw in his loft I would say they are a mix. So between them two lies the answer, unfortunately neither one returns my emails. Like I said before it doesn't matter but at the end of the day I like to know what I have. Have young that should be hatching tomorrow so will have them in the air soon!

Thanks for all the help.

[Kurt Gürsu]

I'm confused now. Is Ugor, Alex?

Yes, Uğur and Alex are the same people.

He said Yozgat's are a Mardin/Ufra cross. You say Urfa is a long shot?

Yes, The Yozgats have Mardin and Urfa as far as we are told.
In my opinion there are other birds in them also.
Maybe I shouldn’t have said long shot but say Urfa is a small portion of the genes in the bloodline.
I don't see many of the characteristics of Urfa in them.
At least clearly.

All I know is at Henry's Loft he has Mardin and some other takla which looks like the picture you have of Ufras expect the head is not a rounded. His birds came from Seref in NY and birdlovefly in MN. He said they are either pure Seref's or a mix of the two. Based on what I saw in his loft I would say they are a mix. So between them two lies the answer, unfortunately neither one returns my emails.

I'm not sure what those two man keep.
Alex would know better then me.
I don't visit or get involved with people that much.
What is for sure the man who brought that bloodline is a good friend of ours.
His name is Fatih and brought them from his city Yozgat.
That's why we call them Yozgat.
There is no known type or bloodline as Yozgat otherwise.
They are just like most competition bloodlines mixed multiple lines.

Like I said before it doesn't matter but at the end of the day I like to know what I have. Have young that should be hatching tomorrow so will have them in the air soon!
Thanks for all the help.

That is very true.
It really doesn't matter.
The important thing is what they give you as far as performance.
Alex likes that bloodline.
I think, Masis also.
Murat might have them too.
For me, I like practical birds.
Birds who do not require a lot of special attention.
Or long training periods.
Birds get into decent performance level with out a lot of fuss.
Any way, I am blabbering.
Not really what you were asking

[Ugur Buyukolmez]

hi corbin,
this is what a true yozgat bloodline would do
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7dxLmdH6wg

[Ugur Buyukolmez]

they should charge the coop 18 to 23 times,2hrs minimum flight time,be able to approach the target under 5 feet or less, shoot up in a fast paced straight line head looking up to the sky with A high velocity wing clapping , tumble 3 to 8 times with a starter tumble, 20 feet minimum to 40 feet. get better and stronger everytime, also never land out of the target, with tumble ,no flat landing,
this is what i know that a yozgat has in their genes,
but we imported them together back in 2004,
fatih had a neighbor in yozgat city in turkey and he gave him a pair of his pigeons.
since 2004 ,to date, in 10 years time, they multiplied or bred ,crossed ,inbred, etc.
they are not easy birds though, some will take months to perform from inbreeding or whatever.
to this day, i have one female( 9 yrs old) that is the grand daughter of the original pair. i this murat has a daughter from the original pair and the rest is either heavily inbred ones or history.
in my opinion,they are top notch performance birds, and my birds today have yozgat blood in them,
watch yucel s arap bird , that is straight from that 9 year old female
good luck with your birds